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Inception: icons and meta
Is there anything better than a DVD rip leaking a month before the official release?
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Well, Christmas is pretty good. So is winning the lottery. And getting into grad school (which is what I should have been trying to do instead of making icons).
Still, I was pretty pleased when Inception appeared on the internets last weekend as I've been enjoying the hell out of the fandom. Rewatching the film, the flaws I mentioned previously (characterisation, dialogue: Nolan, get better at these!) are still there but they don't diminish my enjoyment of the film overmuch and hopefully it won't fall apart the more I view it.
The quality of this copy isn't the greatest but it was decent enough for me to waste a couple of hours making icons.
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Usual rules apply: comment, credit, don't hotlink, don't re-militarize the Rhineland, be nice to your mother, there is no rule six, live every week like it's shark week.
Caps are my own. My resources.
If you'll allow me a moment's self-indulgence, I'd like to discuss two of these icons. Firstly, this one which, let me just say, there is an essay and a fic on the parallels between Jane Eyre and Inception and husbands who lock up their crazy wives and the young women who discover them. However, I find the idea of Ariadne as Jane squicky as hell so if you are tempted to fic the idea, please have her walk a different path.
Secondly, this was a joke on my part because this scene (where she asks whose subconscious they're going into) is one of the two clunkiest exposition scenes in the film (I think the other is when they get to the third level and she finally gets around to asking if they're killing parts of Fischer's subconscious when they kill a projection). But having thought over it a littlelot, I don't think Ariadne is just the exposition fairy and she has a lot more agency in the film than I first thought. It's her idea to go to limbo after Cobb and Eames have given up, she then shoots Mal, and she gets herself and Fischer back to safety rather than risk more time in limbo helping Cobb with Saito. Honestly, I think she'd shoot the tyres and that's the highest compliment that I have for fictional characters.
Really, someone needs to write about the representation of women in Nolan's films in general. I don't think he's misogynistic but I do think he's sometimes a little neglectful. Ariadne's something of an exception in that she isn't a love interest or a love interest who dies, although YMMV if you're wearing shipper goggles (Natalie from Memento also, maybe, because her relationship with Leonard wasn't really romantic and I haven't seen Insomnia so I can't comment on that (but I do know that Nolan didn't write that script)). I don't see any reason why Eames or Yusuf couldn't have been female (I do think Arthur and Saito needed to be the same gender as Cobb or his close relationships with them might have been hard for the audience to view as strictly platonic and that would have lessened the importance/impact of the loss of Mal (if there's someone waiting in the wings, as it were)). I'm not saying that Nolan needs to shoehorn women in for the sake of flag waving feminism and he's certainly not the biggest offender out there, but considering he makes such big movies that also garner critical respect, it would be nice to see more women in them, doing things other than dying. I hope Ariadne was a step in a better direction.
Am I expecting too much? Is it a day ending in "y"?
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Well, Christmas is pretty good. So is winning the lottery. And getting into grad school (which is what I should have been trying to do instead of making icons).
Still, I was pretty pleased when Inception appeared on the internets last weekend as I've been enjoying the hell out of the fandom. Rewatching the film, the flaws I mentioned previously (characterisation, dialogue: Nolan, get better at these!) are still there but they don't diminish my enjoyment of the film overmuch and hopefully it won't fall apart the more I view it.
The quality of this copy isn't the greatest but it was decent enough for me to waste a couple of hours making icons.
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50 51 Usual rules apply: comment, credit, don't hotlink, don't re-militarize the Rhineland, be nice to your mother, there is no rule six, live every week like it's shark week.
Caps are my own. My resources.
If you'll allow me a moment's self-indulgence, I'd like to discuss two of these icons. Firstly, this one
which, let me just say, there is an essay and a fic on the parallels between Jane Eyre and Inception and husbands who lock up their crazy wives and the young women who discover them. However, I find the idea of Ariadne as Jane squicky as hell so if you are tempted to fic the idea, please have her walk a different path.Secondly, this
was a joke on my part because this scene (where she asks whose subconscious they're going into) is one of the two clunkiest exposition scenes in the film (I think the other is when they get to the third level and she finally gets around to asking if they're killing parts of Fischer's subconscious when they kill a projection). But having thought over it a Really, someone needs to write about the representation of women in Nolan's films in general. I don't think he's misogynistic but I do think he's sometimes a little neglectful. Ariadne's something of an exception in that she isn't a love interest or a love interest who dies, although YMMV if you're wearing shipper goggles (Natalie from Memento also, maybe, because her relationship with Leonard wasn't really romantic and I haven't seen Insomnia so I can't comment on that (but I do know that Nolan didn't write that script)). I don't see any reason why Eames or Yusuf couldn't have been female (I do think Arthur and Saito needed to be the same gender as Cobb or his close relationships with them might have been hard for the audience to view as strictly platonic and that would have lessened the importance/impact of the loss of Mal (if there's someone waiting in the wings, as it were)). I'm not saying that Nolan needs to shoehorn women in for the sake of flag waving feminism and he's certainly not the biggest offender out there, but considering he makes such big movies that also garner critical respect, it would be nice to see more women in them, doing things other than dying. I hope Ariadne was a step in a better direction.
Am I expecting too much? Is it a day ending in "y"?
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And yeaaaaaah Nolan has a thing for women dying :/
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The past couple of months I've been discussing the representation of women in the media on LJ and in real life so much that I think I'm starting to sound like a broken record, constantly saying "Why aren't there more complex and relate-able female characters?" every day of the week.
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As I said above, I do not think he's a misogynist at all and what I'd just like to see in his future films are more female characters. The fact that he didn't leave Ariadne just to be the exposition fairy but upgraded her to audience insert (the character who does what the audience would do in that situation - the smart thing) indicates to me that he can write strong women whose role in the film is independent of romance with a male character. Considering how few writers and directors are currently doing this, all I want is more, because while I do enjoy stories with male characters, I really love it when those stories are told with a female character I can admire and relate to. It would be cool to see one of Nolan's great plots in service of a female character.
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At least he doesn't treat women like they are just sex objects *cough Michael Bay*. Nolan's female characters have personality and a place in the story and plot.
Hell even Steven Spielburg doesn't have many films with major female characters. The only film of his I can think of is The Color Purple.
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And I do think that he generally gives women interesting emotions to play, acting wise. But when there are so many male supporting characters in his films, it's a little disappointing to see this repetition of the dead wife/love interest as a motivation for a male character.
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But I think a lot of movies, not just Nolan's movies, have more supporting male characters than females. Like Harry Potter for instance, we have Hermione and Ginny but the rest of the majority of sides and leads are male.
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Really? How fascinating. Maybe he needed to give it ten years work, like Inception.
But I think a lot of movies, not just Nolan's movies, have more supporting male characters than females. Like Harry Potter for instance, we have Hermione and Ginny but the rest of the majority of sides and leads are male.
It's a thing with the majority of movies, certainly, and I could write screeds about most writers and directors but I brought it up with Nolan because he was on my mind and I dearly love pulling apart works and artists I admire. But actually, with Harry Potter, I think the women put up a good show. Yes, probably still more men than women but you've got Molly Weasley, Professor McGonagall, Professor Trelawney, Luna, Cho, Tonks, Lavender, and Fleur on the side of good, and a sliding scale of evil from Aunt Petunia to Narcissa and Bellatrix. Not all are as deeply fleshed out, but they generally represent different conceptions of womanhood,if you know what I mean.
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I definitely agree with this. As I said, shoehorning women in just for the sake of equality is not what I want and it would be odious. But when the gender doesn't matter, why not consider casting either gender? While I really want to see more female lead characters in films, I also think it would be cool to see women take those secondary roles where they just get to make jokes and blow stuff up. I don't need them to be poster girls for feminism, I'd just like them to be there in the first place.
also, you have to take into account the genre of the film. essentially, it's an action movie, and action movies generally attract more of a male audience. a greater proportion of male actors will naturally allow the (predominantly) male audience engage with the medium more, which is what any director wants.
See, I don't agree here. I know plenty of guys who list Alien as their favourite film: that has a female main character who was originally supposed to be male. Likewise, guys who go ga-ga for Buffy Summers because she kicks ass. I think that guys do and would respond to an action movie/TV show with a female lead - but the story itself has to be good. I think that the Catwoman and Elektra movies did poorly not because they featured women in the lead roles but because they sucked. After all, men having been buying comic books about female superheroes for decades.
But I don't think Hollywood is willing to take the chance and that may be because there aren't as many female actors capable of handling the action or because they don't give them the opportunity.
Incidentally, the films I have seen twice at the cinema this year? Iron Man 2, Inception, and Tomorrow, When The War Began, an Australian film about a group of teenagers battling occupying forces with guerrilla tactics, led by 17 yr old girl. Women do turn out for action movies and while percentage wise there may be more men, I don't think the difference is dramatically huge.
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True, true. But comic books have traditionally been a media most commonly consumed by men (many women buying them lately though) so there was/is an audience among them that responds to the many titles featuring women.
but then, isn't this going back to your point? did you go back because you identified with the male lead (besides when the war began...), or because the story was good? i'm guessing it's the latter.
Actually, with Iron Man 2 it was because I love Tony Stark and enjoy the hell out of his character - I thought the plot was a bit of a mess. For Inception I did go back because the story is good but the character I identify with the most is Arthur. I think women do find it easier to identify with male characters than men do with female characters and whether it's because there are more male characters than female characters for us to look to, or it's something we've had to become accustomed to this over time and they haven't, I don't know. I suspect it's both.
It would be interesting to know how the Inception fandom breaks down gender-wise, but I suspect that there are far more women than men and they are predominantly writing the male characters.
I'm afraid I have to bow out now as it's 3:15 AM and I'm losing brain functionality. But I've enjoyed the debate (again!) and hopefully this and my comments to the others explain where I'm coming from in wanting more awesome women in great movies (which I think Nolan can provide).
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So fact is women are quite invisible in film, due to sexism, no way to argue that away. Who isn't part of the solution is part of the problem and that's definitely true for Nolan.
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With Nolan the difference of the importance and depth between the sexes is quite dramatic, way bigger than for example in the 90s Batman movies, to make an easy comparison. I only have to watch the films to see that.
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and you have no idea how many I'm going to snag, like... ALL OF THEM. :D
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Still, she is completely focused on the male hero and on helping him instead of having a motivation and journey of her own, and her main trait is being similar to the protagonist and therefor able to understand him so well.(and the male supporting characters are not like that) She's a cool girl because she just gets you(you being a guy).
I think Nolan is noticeably bad at female characters, I'm actually always a little angry after seeing a film of his for this very reason. I really don't buy this "It's just Hollywood. It's just how the world is!" excuse. Nolan doesn't seem willing and able to get into a female character's head at all.
Only thing I disagree with is Ariadne asking about destroying parts of Fischer's mind. This is actually the first time this question makes sense. Obviously it wasn't planned to shoot any projections beforehand. When it becomes necessary they are actually in mortal peril and her thoughts are probably more along the lines of "OMGOMG" than anything else. Most of the killing is done by Arthur and Eames and, in the next level, Cobb, out of Ariadne's sight anyway. On the mountain, Cobb is calmly shooting projections without provocation, which seems a little cruel, and leads you to question - You are not actually doing any harm here, right?
Also, beautiful Icons, I especially love 39 and 41! lol
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Very true, the only things we see Ariadne do outside of Cobb are her brief interactions with Arthur and a montage of teaching the dream levels. She does essentially play his therapist for an unclear motivation. I'd like to think that she chose to join the mission out of both fear for the others, her own confidence that she could help, and some selfish desire to see her creation through, and not because she had a crush on Cobb and disregarded the risks to help him. I don't get the vibe that it was the latter mostly because of how Ellen Page played the role and that they didn't emphasize any UST between the characters with lingering glances and that sort of thing - the age difference and the fact that they didn't sexualize her through costuming also helped. Generally, the relationship struck me as very platonic, but that doesn't negate the fact that she spent most of her time focused on Cobb in a way that was different from the male characters - who were helping Cobb.
Yusuf seemed to have been motivated by money, Eames by professional curiosity, Arthur...I don't really know. I like to suppose loyalty but only because of the fact that he knew Mal when she was alive and that leads me to think that he and Cobb have been friends for a long time and not merely co-workers. I would have really liked another scene between the two of them just to get a handle on their relationship. We are told that they are partners but I would have liked it to be shown.
I think Nolan is noticeably bad at female characters
I think Nolan is bad at characterisation for both genders but it's perhaps less noticeable with the men because they get more screen time. I think he gives the actors good emotions to play and has the characters do interesting things, but I'm never sure of who they are as individuals. His characters are always in service of the plot - there are no scenes where you just get to see the characters interacting for the sake of the pure enjoyment of watching skilled actors trade back and forth (probably because Nolan isn't good at dialogue, either). This sort of scene between Arthur and Cobb would have explained a lot about their relationship even if it didn't specifically advance the plot.
I really don't buy this "It's just Hollywood. It's just how the world is!" excuse
Yeah, it's just disappointing when you look at his film posters and see a bunch of guys and then one (now two) woman. At my count there are 15 male speaking roles in Inception (if you count the Japanese boy on the train, the young Australian lawyer, the dream den assistant, the passport official, James) in addition to the significant roles of the team members (C, A, E, Y, S), Miles, Robert, Maurice, and Browning.
There are six speaking roles for women. One (the grandmother) is only heard and never seen, the flight attendant has one line, then there's Phillipa and Eames' blonde projection (technically a role for an actress, but actually a male character), and of course, Ariadne and Mal (who is also a male construct). I think the role of Mal is a complex one for an actress to play, but the character itself is said to be not complex - she's a shade, not a real woman.
Only thing I disagree with is Ariadne asking about destroying parts of Fischer's mind. This is actually the first time this question makes sense.
For her, yes, but for the audience? It was something that I'd been wondering about for most of the movie and definitely would have appreciated an answer to earlier. So while it was the right time for her to ask, it seemed a little late in the game to for such important information to come up.
i'm just going to repost for lack of confusion
I was so relieved there was no UST or, god forbid, more between Cobb and Ariadne. Would have been so wrong on every level!
I definitely think Arthur is loyal and their relationship goes way back. There is also the scene when Cobb tells him to give his regards when he "of course" goes statesside after the Cobol job. I take that to mean he'll visit Cobb's family. Then you get little stuff like Arthur's reaction to Cobb not waking up and Cobb's reaction to torturing Arthur -ha- that just gives you the feeling. More would have been much appreciated, of course!
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"it would be nice to see more women in them, doing things other than dying. I hope Ariadne was a step in a better direction."
Lol, mte, I haven't seen all of Nolan's movies but I've never really been impressed by any of his feminine characters, Nathalie excepted. I think the one character who's got it worse is Batman's mom, I don't think she even gets a line of dialogue and okay, you chose to give Bruce a daddy complex but *come on* she could do something else aside from dying.
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I had a wonderful time with 29! The team was definitely having a collective DOM COBB UZ GOTS SUM 'SPLAINING TO DO moment.
I will credit when I use. ♥
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